Comments on Diamonds and Toads: The Shadow Father

This post is very interesting to think about and t...

2011-02-23T05:51:32.914-08:00

This post is very interesting to think about and to connect with today's society and world. Fairy tales do leave an absent father-like figure in most of the popular fairy tales, still around today. But what we take from these fairy tales today is that the father was absent or was present but wasnt pleasnt and that it is okay to miss that father-like figure in reality. It is important to have that kind of role model to have. Being an only child I could relate to "Cinderella" because the step sisters weren't pleasant to Cinderella and the step mother hated her, the only person left to love Cinderella should have been her father but it was not so. The father in Cinderella didn't have much part throughout the story. In today's society it is expected that the father step up to provide and protect their child along with the mother.
Courtney Stewart

Many fairy tales seem to start the same way, with ...

2011-02-22T17:24:46.783-08:00

Many fairy tales seem to start the same way, with a father who somehow losses his wife and remarries. Then the stepmother steps in and takes over, where does the father go? In many of the tales you may not hear of him again, in other he shows up every now and then but plays no big part on the effects to the hero or heroine. For fathers reading these tales to their children it would be tough to have to explain to them that this would not happen to them. That is one event I know that no one wants any child to go through yet in many of these fairy tales that is exactly what goes on. I wonder what some of these stories would have been like if the father did step in and do his job as a protector of the house hold. Would Cinderella end up with the prince? Would Snow White ever meet her prince? Those two well known stories could have been totally different. They also may not have ever been as popular as they are today. All I know it that for my children I don’t want them to have to wonder what my role is, they will know that I will protect them and look after what is best for them and their future.
--Tyler Biller

It really is hard to find a hero of the parental f...

2011-02-22T15:52:09.689-08:00

It really is hard to find a hero of the parental figures in any fairy tale. It is usually the child that has to do everything themselves, and overcome obstacles mostly alone, or with other children or child size helpers. Perhaps this is why fairy tales are so closely associated with children. In these stories, they are the heroes. But anyway, I had hinted on this a little in my paper that the fatherless figure in fairy tales is something seen in today’s society. It seems that we continue to thrive on the mother figure being the main support for children, and father figures are only good for bringing the child into this world. It makes us future fathers a little hesitant to say the least. Except today we see a lot less of the stepmother villain, which in most cases was only introduced so that children wouldn’t think so bad of their actual mothers.

While I would have to agree that men in most fairy...

2011-02-02T14:43:26.881-08:00

While I would have to agree that men in most fairy tales are either not represented, or seemingly represented unjustly, I use the word unjustly lightly; we can look to see when most of these fairy tales were written. Most of the fathers would have been I guess you can call him the bread winner. Never, or barely ever at the home because they would most likely been working. So the idea that the father is not represented or represented as a nonparent makes sense. I’m no history buff but I would put money on it that most men didn’t concern themselves with most things in the home. Like it has been said without the neglect of the father the stories would most likely cease to exist. The obedience that the father shows to people other than their own blood shows a certain cowardice. In Snow White and Cinderella, we see the king as a coward because allows his own flesh and blood be treated poorly by their stepmother. Dan S.

I agree that the father’s are the villainous figur...

2010-12-02T13:45:49.059-08:00

I agree that the father’s are the villainous figures of many fairy tales because they are self-centered, weak and absent. As demonstrated in the fairy tales, “Snow White,” “Hansel and Gretel,” the father’s are portrayed as malicious and immoral because they are lacking the parenthood tools. For example, the father in “Hansel and Gretel” is profoundly weak and helpless towards his children, but yet he is given a pass. As Dulac mentions, “As such, he is essential to the needs of the "Evil Ones” this explains that men are often used as a form of an instrument by women, in order to fulfill their deeds. I agree that men in many fairy tales are used as sources and therefore, do not have a voice in the tales. Men usually, in fairy tales listen to their wives and, as a result, are manipulated in a ways that affect their character. Similarly, to “Snow White” story the huntsman who is believed to be the father listens to his wicked queen. We don’t know enough information about male characters, for the fact that they disappear, but it is usually appealing to the audience because they return as heroes. I believe males in fairy tales are usually rich, handsome, and evil, but these are the only qualities that we know, other than that they disappear. In other words, the shadow of the father leaves us with the suspense of his character.
Mary Cruz A.

The father or “missing” father is always a very in...

2010-11-29T17:39:01.013-08:00

The father or “missing” father is always a very interesting character in fairy tales. I did not always realize how often fathers received the easy way out until it was discussed in class. Snow White’s father plays a significant role in the story. He not only leaves Snow with a terrible step-mother who is out to kill her, but he is also the voice in the mirror which is the instigation for the jealousy and killing. Her father may also be the shallow huntsman who avoids killing her just because she is too beautiful. Hansel and Gretel’s father is also so easily forgiven for his terrible behavior. He listens to his wife and leaves the children in the woods twice to fend for their own food and survival at a very young age. Their father not only goes along with it, but makes the most of it by pretending to cut wood nearby. Many fairy tales have awful parents but the fathers’ mistreatment and ignorance often is overlooked. Kayla W.

“Without the Shadow Father, these stories would ha...

2010-10-29T19:37:38.111-07:00

“Without the Shadow Father, these stories would have far less momentum and excitement.” I completely agree with this. Without a father in the story, whether he is being villainous in some way or not, there wouldn’t be a story. Even when the father is present and perhaps has some good intentions, the story may not be as exciting as others we have come to know. One such instance is Hansel and Gretel. This tale is a pretty good one and well known. However, when comparing this tale to others, it falls a little flat. One may deduce that the lack of a father in the story may be the better way to go. Stories without fathers generally are better known, a la Snow White.

In many ways the fathers in fairy tales are the driving force of the stories because without them, as you have said, there is no story.

Paul W. :: T390

I think that fathers are consistently made out to ...

2010-09-25T10:35:23.607-07:00

I think that fathers are consistently made out to be the bad guy because fairy tales are generally aimed at a female audience. Fairy tales about pretty, good-hearted princesses beating the odds to find prince charming are written to show little girls that they just have to endure some trials and tribulations to reach that happy ending. If such stories are written for women, who better to blame than the men in the story, or lack of. It does seems a bit over the top to have fathers who are so easy to neglect, but the point of the stories, I suppose, are to teach a lesson regardless of how over the top the characters might be. Let’s not forget that the so-called “stepmothers” were in many cases originally the girl’s real mother. The mothers have only been changed into stepmothers to put off the idea that one’s birth mother could do such a thing to her daughter.

Rachel P.

This was very interesting to me. I never consider...

2010-09-12T09:08:50.702-07:00

This was very interesting to me. I never considered the father's role in these stories. It's amazing how easily people's attention can be diverted from the father's role, something people would often consider or examine, because it is overtaken by the cruelty of the "step" mother. I find it interesting how in some of the fairy tales the mother role was changed to stepmother in order to take the harshness off of motherhood, but nothing was done to save the poor portrayal of the father. It is very true that without the selfish, spineless, or absent fathers we would not have our fairy tales. They could, however, have the fathers making a valiant effort. Maybe one small gesture of care could slightly redeem them from what they are allowing their daughters to be put through. The general idea about the father-daughter relationship is that she is daddy's little girl and he will do anything to protect her. These fairy tales not only do not show this relationship, but they almost mock it. Especially in Beauty and the Beast, Beauty is protecting her father and he is letting her. I know my father would never let me get him out a mess that he made. I am a daddy's girl, so to see this aspect of fairy tales is an eye-opener and something I never considered before. Thank for the new prospective!
-Kelly H.

I think about the social problems that actually fi...

2010-09-02T12:42:35.714-07:00

I think about the social problems that actually find a little truth in these stories just because there is a emphasis on masculinaity doesnt mean that the male will always stand up and say hey this is wrong. You think in most cases when things concerning children a lot of fathers will step up and do something but then you have how many single mothers raising children and the father left? Or how many children that have been abandoned by both parents. What doesnt kill makes you stronger or in the original fairy tales could drive you insane or kill you. There could be males who get tamed by they're ruling wives that get power hungry and then say forget this this woman is crazy, but if he's king why didnt he just get rid of the broad and take pride or profit in his daugthers pin head beauty? In Cinderella I mean hey happens all the time guy marries woman he finds out is horrible and he is always off visit the village chamber maids forgetting about a his girl. As long as he gets to sit on his butt and they have a free maid why not? At least the first wife left him something. Now Beauty and the Beast...the father was probably thinking (in the version I read at least)hey, I have other daughters at home and Im the one who can support them so Beauty show do this for the sake of everyone. Even though its a beautiful daughter im sure he was scared when he seen that big beast and thought at least the beast has gotten money. I guess what Im trying to say sarcastically is people can be selfish and thats not a fairy tale that can be reality. There are many other coward dads that just cop out and im actually surprised that in stories they dont seem to benefit from; I guess they just dont care.

The absence of fathers in the above mentioned fair...

2010-02-08T18:33:20.699-08:00

The absence of fathers in the above mentioned fairy tales is not as bad as the father in beauty and the beast who is almost painfully present. He gives his daughter up to be killed in his place because of his ungratefulness for the beast hospitality. What father gives up his father daughter to die in his place for something he has done. There is even a hint of him trying to pass of the blame onto Beauty for asking for the rose when he says “….beauty take these roses for they have cost your father dearly.” In Tatars, Classic fairy tales. At this point Beauty’s father is basically saying, if you hadn’t asked me for a rose we wouldn’t be in this predicament. How crazy is that! He blames her and ultimately end up taking her to the Beasts castle proving that he is a coward despite his half hearted attempts to stop her from taking his place. Actions speak louder than words in this fairy tale.
Fisher, S.

Snow White, the character, is a very stupid indivi...

2010-02-08T12:48:28.717-08:00

Snow White, the character, is a very stupid individual! She has been warned by the seven little men that she lives with to not open the doors for strangers, and to watch out for the wickedness of her step-mother. She was warned by these men, dwarfs more specifically, that the lady is crafty and most likely gunning for her; after all she did try to have a huntsman kill her and decimate her little body for the beauty which can be supposedly brought out after eating (which is just gross). The huntsman, himself even warned her of impending doom if she doesn’t run far-far away.
So there is a lot of emphasis put on how evil her step-mother is, but really it is a lot Snow White’s fault that she is so gullible and quite honestly the most ignorant person that I have ever read about – ever. Snow White’s step-mother was wicked; we all know this, but can we look at Snow White for a minute and ask what the heck?! How dumb can you be?!
And honestly look back at this story and see that ignorance truly is not bliss!

In, "The Shadow Father" blog post, I fee...

2010-02-08T12:27:30.425-08:00

In, "The Shadow Father" blog post, I feel as though the observation of the father in "Beauty and the Beast" is fair in most respects. What the blog post fails to acknowledge is Beauty's insistence on sacrificing herself to the Beast. Granted her father should not have been willing under any circumstances to let her take his place with the Beast, but we are not ever made certain of all of her motives. We know for sure that a big part of her motive is to save her father, but I feel as though there is more to it than that. I feel as though Beauty had some selfish reasons for accepting the Beast's offer. One possible reason would be to live life away from her sisters whom she disliked so greatly. Another reason may have been to receive all the material possessions should could possibly want. I know the story goes that she came upon her special room after accepting the Beast's deal, but I cannot help but think she may have knew there were riches to be had, for after all the Beast lived in this great castle, which any average person could assume meant he was well off.

Many female characters in fairy tales do not have ...

2010-02-07T22:19:43.717-08:00

Many female characters in fairy tales do not have a father figure present. Could it possibly be because like many modern day men, the male is often off working to support his family to the best of his capability? I am sure that Snow White’s father wouldn’t have allowed the queen the ability of pushing his daughter out the door and into the hands of danger had he had the opportunity to be a stay at home dad.
Did Kate’s mother in the fairy tale “Kate Crackernuts” leave Kate’s father to marry the king, or was the father deceased? Do you thing Kate’s father would have wanted his daughter living with the mother of his child knowing what evil the mother was capable of achieving? Would the king have not been absolutely appalled to know that the queen was plotting to kill his own daughter, Anne, and not done his best to prevent such an ill fate?
Women are often left as the caretaker of children and the men are just not as informed of the upbringing of their brood as they should. I believe that these male parental figures are not at fault for the ill treatment of their children, but are put to blame for merely taking on the social role that society has placed upon them.
Vicki G.

I never noticed that the father was lacking form f...

2010-02-07T14:34:28.926-08:00

I never noticed that the father was lacking form fairy tales or was the bad guy in till this moment. In most of the stories such as Beauty And The Beast the father is harming his daughter. As a man my self I cant explain some of these behaviors. I know as a husband and Future father, it’s hard to accomplish all the roles presented to us at times. Men often fill a variety of roles. Men sometimes have to fill the role of mom and dad. I believe that is often way fathers are seen as the bad guy. In most cases the father is responsible for disciplining the child, giving him the bad guy image. The husband works hard and long hours, thus he is not home or around in most fairy tales. These are generalized; I realize that roles have changed a lot over the years. However there are certain cases where I just cant explain why things are done. I would never give up my child’s life for mine.~ James B

I think the weak fathers that you read about in fa...

2010-02-06T17:45:58.018-08:00

I think the weak fathers that you read about in fairy tales mimics the American condition today. When contemplating the effects of the rise in divorce, separation, having babies out of wedlock, and sperm banks now available, the idea of dad's being a active part of the family is all but gone.
There are men doing what they should in standing up and taking care of their responsibilities, but, a large number are not. I believe this trend is reflected on the change in the man's role in the fairy tales that are popular in our culture. It is, after all, what we know and see all around us. However, instead of having absentee fathers, we just have weak, spineless, self-serving fathers who will even sacrifice their own child to save themselves. Like in the Beauty and the Beast when the father brought his daughter to exchange her own life for that her father obviously did not value as much as his own.
Some believe that newly educated women in our society are the reason fairy tales look and sound the way they do, that we construct our reality. I say this is a story telling the truth about the hard core reality or life that today’s women live. That is if you are a woman you are worthless, or at the very best you have less worth than a man.

In Cinderella,it is interesting to think about the...

2010-02-01T19:11:10.566-08:00

In Cinderella,it is interesting to think about the use of the plain and ordinary things such as a pumpkin, rats,and mice as the items the fairy god-mother turned into beautiful and magnificent horses, a coach and the men in waiting. Also the fact that Cinderella herself is turned into a plain, ash-covered young woman who is eventually transformed into a lovely creature, stunning the whole assembly of folks at the King's ball. That is what most people think of when they hear the word fairy tale. The plain and ordinary turns into the shining and a bit enchanted glory that people, women especially, day-dream about. There is always the hope that maybe someday the plain unnoticed woman will suddenly have her chance to shine and be noticed. It is this outward beauty that everyone thinks makes the difference. People also know that the inward beauty of kindness, compassion, humility and such really make a woman stand out, but we nevertheless still feel that outward beauty will complete our happiness. I include myself as an example. Yet we know that it is a deception that blinds the truth. Beauty does not bring happiness.
LindaC T-390

It is remarkably sad to say that fathers such thes...

2010-02-01T11:56:49.039-08:00

It is remarkably sad to say that fathers such these do still exist very much in the world. Unfortunately I know them all too well, too afraid to stand up for what is right because the wife may get in a tizzy. For Cinderella and Snow White it is absolutely gut wrenching to imagine how a father could standby and allow his own daughter to be treated so poorly. For that matter so violently all in the name of love and happiness, ridiculous, I guess love just really is not in the cards for me then. In regards to Beauty and the Beast, what a cowardice act on her father’s part, there is no way in the world any father would allow his daughter to face death to save his own life. It would not matter how much she pleaded a father good or bad would not allow such an injustice to be done to his daughter.

I think the fact that the father is seen as irresp...

2010-01-29T14:09:32.401-08:00

I think the fact that the father is seen as irresponsible has somewhat shaped our views of society. For the most part, fathers are the providers while the mothers are the caring, loving ones. It’s important to realize that by seeing the Disney versions of “Beauty and the Beast,”, “Cinderella,” and “Snow White,” we’ve been brainwashed into thinking a certain way about our parents. For most of us, as children, grew up seeing that the father figure didn’t exist much in the fairytale world. Now, by reading the real versions of these fairytales, we’ve come to see that that is true, but also that the father figures were selfish and somewhat neglectful. For example, in the real version of “Beauty and the Beast,” we see that the father let Beauty go and take his place at the Beast’s mansion and was willing to let his daughter die for him. What father would do such a thing? By learning this real version, I’m not so sure it’s a good thing to have little kids watching such “fairy tales” and thinking that every father is like the ones they are seeing in these films.
-Jessica L.

I see "bad" fathers performing very simi...

2010-01-26T13:29:29.157-08:00

I see "bad" fathers performing very similar tasks to "bad" mothers in fairy tales such as "Beauty and the Beast" and "Snow White." The purpose is to set up a way for the (most often) heroine to accomplish the set of tasks or the challenge before her. Although it may be easy to chastise the fathers, and rightfully so in most cases, it is undeniable that the poor decisions, or even lack of presence function to create a space for the heroine to take over.

Imagine for a moment, if Beauty's father was an upstanding father; a father that would meet our standards of what it means to be "good." Well, then, she would have never been exposed to Beast. This may sound good, but if Beauty and Beast had never met, than Beauty would not have freed Beast from his curse. Beast, based on his treatment of Beauty, seems to be a "good" character, deserved of being freed from the curse, and one worthy of happiness.

With this understanding, we can discuss the necessity of the "bad" father in these tales, in part, encourages the outcome of the tale.

Is this why Americans feel that dad’s are not as g...

2009-12-11T08:25:43.280-08:00

Is this why Americans feel that dad’s are not as good as mothers? These tales were read to us instilling the thought that our fathers should be absent. Not only that but if misfortune befell him be would sacrifice his children, one or more, in order to regain it. Oh yes, he would regret it whole heartedly, but as my grandmother would tell me, “you’re not sorry, you’ll do it again” Fathers continually play the absent card when life is too hard or they don’t want to deal. This could be we are so surprised when a man is a good father. This could also be why we give men a pass at child rearing. Since they are absent and would give up their children they are not fit to raise them. Especially in the tales where there is no mother present. Poor kids.

2. The absence and irresponsible fathers in fairy ...

2009-12-10T17:36:15.923-08:00

2. The absence and irresponsible fathers in fairy tales is something that many people did not even think about. In “Beauty and the Beast” illustrate an irresponsible father. He trades his daughter like a product in order to save his life. Fathers in fairy tales do not show their good side. They always are absent and lack of responsibilities. In “Jack and the Beanstalk” does not appear a father. Jack lives only with his mother—the ogre cannot be his father. The father from “Gretel and Hansel” is a man who also lack of responsibility—he lets the kids get lose in the forest.
In the past centuries, fathers did not care of their kids. Wives were responsible of taking care of their kids. What I mean is that fathers were providers—they work to bring food to the home. In several cases, fathers were outside fighting in wars. This can be some of the reasons why fathers do not appear in many tales.
Ever A.

Nonexistent father in the fairy tales spells for t...

2009-12-10T05:55:47.584-08:00

Nonexistent father in the fairy tales spells for trouble… Somehow that sound a little way to close to the real life to me. Everywhere you look, if the father is not there in the family, or he’s there but has no influence, children will turn into some kind of problem. Mother will try to be tougher than necessary because she feels like she needs to compensate for that hole in the parental figures and this creates problems.
In these fairy tales step-mothers, or if you will, mothers, don’t really compensate but they become cruel towards the child, agonizing them to a point of total destruction. In the story child prevails in the end and most of the times mother aka. evil step-mother, dies and “they lived happily ever after” happens. Well this is not so true for real life.
Child who strains away because it feels like it’s missing something usually never returns…

First of all, I really enjoy Edmund Dulac's wo...

2009-12-08T05:19:10.747-08:00

First of all, I really enjoy Edmund Dulac's work, and while it's true that you rarely see Beauty's father depicted, this picture captures him perfectly.

And while this isn't about fathers, I feel "Snow White's" Huntsman is perhaps even worse than the queen. Clearly he's aware of right and wrong, yet his "heroic" action is completely self-serving. He actually justifies not killing her by telling himself that she'll be eaten by wild animals soon enough anyway. He's just glad he doesn't have to kill her personally.

So here's a guy who's been ordered to kill a little girl. Now he knows that killing a little girl is wrong, so he puts on his thinking cap and comes up with a solution...to let wild animals devour her! Problem. Solved.

What an awesome dude. Although...if he had been in charge of coming up with the plot of Ocean's 12, it might have actually been watchable.

The different views of mothers and fathers in fair...

2009-12-07T12:42:21.505-08:00

The different views of mothers and fathers in fairy tales is very interesting and I think part of it has to do with our culture and what the role of “mother” or “father” means to us. I also think this may have to do with the fact that biological mothers carry the child inside themselves for 9 months which amazes me to no end. Not saying that fathers are not as close to the children as the mother is at all, I just think that it is just one of the many differences that males and females have from each other. What I am trying to get at is perhaps we view evil mothers in a worse way because they are the ones who carried the child, who (in some cases) fed the child from their breasts, and in many cases spend more time at home with the child and for her to do ill deeds against that child goes against…well I guess nature. But on the other hand the father is just as much the child’s parent and protector and should be held equally accountable for any misdeeds of his own against the child - I just feel oftentimes he is not.